zei: ...Sipaš i ne misliš....
Vazi sa Srbiju i srpske automobile ali ako tako postupas sa modernim vozilima uskoro ces poceti da placas to sto ne mislis.
Svaki proizvodjac je dao podatak koje uslove mora da ispuni antifriz, ulje i ostale tecnosti....

zei: Izvinjavam se.
...... Posle dve godine u rashladnom sistemu treba zameniti antifriz jer se promenila Ph vrednost i sada taj antifriz (kiselina) pocinje da nagriza sklopove u motoru.

Marcony: Nisam znao da li je unutra bio antifriz ili destilovana voda. Kupio sam motor letos pa nisam hteo da rizikujem.
Znaci da sipam G12.

G11 to G12 Swap

This article was orriginially posted on the Votex site, but is unfortunately hard to find. Because this is one of the better diagnostic pieces that have appeared recently, I archived a local copy, with all credit due to New Dimensions and Votex.

I also edited the text a bit to increase readability. My additions are surrounded by [ ].

Jan





Tech Tips

by Chris Lagattuta, Autowerkstat


My name is Chris Lagattuta and I've worked at ND as a technician for the last ten years or so, and now started my own business, Autowerkstat. Over the years, I've had the great pleasure of encountering some great technical mind bogglers as well as repair a lot of problems that other people had trouble with. When you see the same cars come in the door day after day, you start to see patterns.

I read a lot of your postings when I get home from work and often think I can help out with the solution, except I never have time to write. So, I wanted to dump a whole lotta stuff I accumulated over the years in hopes it can solve some driveability problems for you.

G11 versus G12
O.K., now my opinion about this G11 to G12 changeover. In order to understand this better, I'll tell you what I know about coolant. Buy only high quality antifreeze-cheap brands can be straight ethylene glycol minus important corrosion inhibitors and lubricants. ALWAYS mix 50/50 with water(preferably distilled) or follow ratio recommend for your climate. Never top off coolant tank with straight coolant-preferrably small amount of distilled water or your 50/50 mixture. Use common sense, large amount missing means that if you refill, you are going to throw off the glycol to water ratio, and it is very important. Antifreeze should never exceed 65%. Exceeding 85% will cause the silicates to drop out of suspension and goo up to clog the radiator and reduce heat transfer. VW recommends the water and compressed air treatment to upgrade to G12 because up to a third of the coolant is still trapped in the heater core and the engine after you pull a hose or the drain cock. This flush ensures that you are removing all accumulated rust, scale,silicate buildup and old coolant as best as possible. By the way, the blue and red coolant will foam up and turn brown in your expansion tank if you mix them or don't get all the G11 out. The degree of corrosion that takes place in your VW depends upon the type of minerals and alloys in the engine and radiator, and the acidity or alkalinity of the coolant. So long as your coolant remains alkaline, corrosion will be held to a minimum. Conversely, acidic coolant hastens the corrosion process that occurs between the cast iron and the aluminum present in the engine and radiator. The corrosion inhibiting chemicals that are added to you coolant is what keeps the alkalinity on the high side of the Ph scale. That's why adding aftermarket wetters and boosters is not smart because you are altering the already unknown alkalinity of your coolant(no matter how new, it varies depending on mix ratio, mineral content, additive content) More important, this alkalinity ratio doesn't have to be bigger to be better-it just needs staying power. This is measured as alkalinity reserve(how long your coolant can resist corrosion)

The enemies of your coolant are heat, dissolved oxygen and minerals which react with the metal surfaces in your engine depleting the capacity of the coolant to resist becoming acidic. Therefore, changing the coolant annually or at least bi-annually guarantees that you never exceed the coolants ability to resist corrosion. European car makers like VW specify coolant additives lacking in phosphates and including borates and low silicates because their water is harder and it reacts with phosphates to create calcium and magnesium deposits.

The Japanese disagree and specify high in phosphates and low in borates and silicates because they fear lack of maintenance will cause borate corrosion. This is the reason you see the little "phosphate free coolant " only from vw under the expansion tank cap-or it will void mf's warranty. It seems that in my opinion, the original G11 coolant must have been a poor acidic retardant-either from the reaction to the water installed from the factory and/or an additive package that was insufficient to go more than a couple of years on North American water. Mixing the two coolants causes problems because you get saturation of the silicates and gelling inside the engine, thus the specific ritual flush with water and compressed air.

I firmly believe that no matter what proportion VW used for an additives package with the G12 coolant, it too should be flushed out and refilled every year or two. Considering that it isn't that much work and it beats playing with litmus paper and rebuilding your cylinder head. By the way, the corrosion we usually see on VR6s is surface etching that rubs away to leave pits-almost always around any flange that attaches to the head, or on the water jack inlets comprising the head gasket. They're usually good to go because they are far enough away from critical sealing areas, but we do replace heads when they are questionable. I really doubt that the new metal gasket is the reason for the G12. There is actually no bare metal on the gasket and all the passages have sealer from the factory around them. I think the reason was simply that G11 didn't provide long enough reserve capacity and coupled with poor maintenance, they were getting too many warranty problems.


Chris Lagattuta

smatch: Da li nekoriscen, dakle neotpakovan antifriz ukoliko stoji npr dve godine gubi svoja antikorozivna svojstva?
Ja mislim da gubi, ali zelim da cujem i vase misljenje.

While searching for information about the best antifreeze for my SAAB I found that:

1. Famous Mercedes-Benz (orange) antifreeze is made by BASF.
2. SAAB branded antifreeze (blue in color AFAIK) is also made by BASF.
3. VW/Audi coolants G11 (blue) and G12 (pink) are also products of BASF.

G11 is also called Glysantin G48 by BASF, it's blue (or greenish blue) in color, targeted at iron block/aluminium head engines and meets specifications of major car makers including Saab 6901599. That makes me think, that "original" SAAB branded antifreeze is the same G48. I'm almost sure that orange Merceds coolant is the same G48 too (color means nothing, it's only marketing).

The moral of the story:

1. Use BASF Glysantin ProtectPlus/G48 in your SAAB. But it's not available everywhere.
2. Use Merc, VW/Audi or SAAB branded antifreeze - it's the same high quality stuff at a higher price.
2. There are other makers who make coolant based on BASF G48 product. Should be cheaper and easier to get and almost as good as brand name production.