A olovni je stetan..za sta?

Nebojsa Milanovic: ... i iako se radujem što je makar on došao do nas (mada po astronomskoj ceni)...

Java Beograd: Oktanski broj benzinskog goriva ne oznalava kalorijsku (energtsku) vrednost benzina. Motor koji je predviđen da radi sa gorivom od 95 oktana, radiće identično i sa gorivom od 98 oktana.

zarsilic: Kod starijih vozila DA, ali kod nivijih NE. Kod novijih vozila "senzori" osete "losije" gorivo tako da komputer redukuje snagu motora. Isto tako osete i oktanski broj te shodno tome reaguju.

Java Beograd
Oktanski broj benzinskog goriva ne oznalava kalorijsku (energtsku) vrednost benzina. Motor koji je predviđen da radi sa gorivom od 95 oktana, radiće identično i sa gorivom od 98 oktana.

goat: menja li se samo ugao predpaljenja ili kompjuter interveniše na još nekim parametrima?

zarsilic: Osim pretpaljenja menjaju se i drugi parametri. Prakticno svi: od kolicine goriva pa sve do kontrole rada turbine, ukoliko je vozilo poseduje.

vladd: Tako da ako se koristilo gorivo sa 95 oktana, nakon prelaska na 98 ne menjaju se parametri rada motora, i razlika nije uopste primetna, osim u slucaju resetovanja, skidanja napajanja i brisanja opertivne memorije.

Tako da beneficije goriva sa vecom oktanskom vrednoscu treba konstatovati sa konkretnim preduslovima.

vladd: KAda? kada ima ili kada nema, kada se skida napajanje(shvati to kao brisanje radne memorije)?

Naravno da vozila koja imaju taj obicaj i takvu proceduru, moraju da dozive brisanje memorije, ona koja nemaju, nema veze...
Ne vidim sta je tu nejasno, osim, da bi se "osetilo" poboljsanje, potrebni su neki preduslovi, ponekad...pojava nije univerzalna i sveprisutna...

Ali za takva uzivanja, korisnik treba malo vise da ima informacija o svom vozilu, da bi bas bio siguran da je poboljsanje stvarno, ili je placebo..sto je cest slucaj..u mentalitetu..:)

vladd:
Moze i dijagnostika, a moze i klema.

Nocni: vladd, nema potrebe da se skida klema a to uporno svima predlažeš... na taj način se ne brišu greške u ECU u zadnjih 15 godina niti na jednom vozilu i skidanjem napajanja će se samo dodati još nekoliko grešaka...

vladd: Kada se popune dinamicki parametri u radnoj memoriji, nema vise dopisivanja, klasicnim nacinom.

Nocni: Zasto si tako uporan? Po ovome kako si objasnio bi onda kada se klema skine malo duze i digitalna kilometraza na tabli trebala da se vrati na nulu

Can Saab BioPower cars run on unleaded petrol as well as bioethanol E85?
Yes they can. Saab BioPower cars use a flexi-fuel engine. It can run on bioethanol E85, petrol or any mixture of the two. The engine automatically detects what's in the tank and adjusts accordingly.The engine management system monitors the fuel quality after every visit to the filling station and automatically makes any adjustments necessary for running on E85 and/or petrol in any combination. That means Saab BioPower drivers can also use petrol, should E85 not be available.

A key innovation in the Brazilian flex technology was avoiding the need for an additional dedicated sensor to monitor the ethanol-gasoline mix, which made the first American M85 flex fuel vehicles too expensive.[81] This was accomplished through the lambda probe, used to measure the quality of combustion in conventional engines, is also required to tell the engine control unit (ECU) which blend of gasoline and alcohol is being burned. This task is accomplished automatically through software developed by Brazilian engineers, called "Software Fuel Sensor" (SFS), fed with data from the standard sensors already built-in the vehicle. The technology was developed by the Brazilian subsidiary of Bosch in 1994, but was further improved and commercially implemented in 2003 by the Italian subsidiary of Magneti Marelli, located in Hortolândia, São Paulo. A similar fuel injection technology was developed by the Brazilian subsidiary of Delphi Automotive Systems, and it is called "Multifuel", based on research conducted at its facility in Piracicaba, São Paulo.[81] This technology allows the controller to regulate the amount of fuel injected and spark time, as fuel flow needs to be decreased and also self-combustion needs to be avoided when gasoline is used because ethanol engines have compression ratio around 12:1, too high for gasoline.

Disconnecting the old battery will erase all the "learned" presets that
are stored in the computer. This includes idle, transmission "grade logic",
fuel trim, and all the OBD-II "readiness monitors".
These things will all take the computer a few days to re-learn, so the car
may feel "funny" for a while until the ECM trains itself. If you drive a
long enough distance, you may (or may not) notice a small drop in mileage
until the learning is complete.

Ivan Dimkovic:Naravno, detaljne ECU/DME podatke necemo nigde naci, jer proizvodjaci automobila detalje kriju kao zmija noge,

zarsilic: Ne bas,

ako se dobro plati, sve se moze saznati.

Subaru's knock control strategy explained

Introduction

This post will attempt to explain, in detail, how the knock control strategy works for the 16-bit ECUs. The example values given are based on a USDM 02 WRX and the use of RomRaider/Ecuflash with the latest definitions.

Timing Basics
Ignition Timing is determined by the ECU as follows:

Total Timing = Base Timing + Knock Correction Advance + Other timing compensations

Other timing compensations = other compensations including those for IAT, ECT, per cylinder, among others.

Knock Correction Advance = (Timing Advance Maximum * (IAM/16)) + feedback knock correction + fine learning knock correction

Note: The IAM (ignition advance multiplier) used in the formula above is the raw value (ranging from 0-16) for the 16-bit ECU. For the 32-bit ECU, the IAM will range from 0 to 1 (substitute "IAM" for "IAM/16").

From the formula above, you can see that Knock Correction Advance (KC) consists of three elements. How these values are determined and how they interact with one another will be discussed below.

Although exactly how the ECU determines knock (based on input from the knock sensor) is not fully understood, the result is quite simple. The knock signal is either set or clear. That it, as far as the ECU is concerned, there either is knock or there isn't. There's no level of severity that is stored or used for knock control.

Feedback Knock Correction (FBKC)

Feedback knock correction (FBKC), as applied, is always either zero or negative. It is active when engine speed and load are within the ranges specified by the 'Feedback Correction Range' tables (although it can be disabled temporarily as described below). If enabled, the ECU looks at the knock signal. If set (i.e. knock), the FBKC value is decreased by about 2 degrees("Feedback Correction Retard Value"). Each time this portion of the code is executed, 2 additional degrees will be pulled if the knock signal is still set, up to a limit of about -11 degrees("Feedback Correction Retard Limit"). However, if FBKC is negative and the knock signal then becomes clear (i.e. no knock), FBKC does not immediately reset to zero. Instead, there is a delay("Feedback Correction Negative Advance Delay") in which the current correction remains until the knock signal is clear over the delay period. If so, feedback correction is increased by ~1 degree("Feedback Correction Negative Advance Value") and the feedback delay counter is reset. If not, and the knock signal is set over the
delay period, the counter is reset and 2 degrees will be pulled. This process continues and FBKC will eventually reach zero as long as the delay period is satisfied enough times to increment the correction back to zero. Of course, "delay" is in the terms of the ecu, so this all happens very rapidly.

As noted above, FBKC can be disabled even when load and RPM are within the ranges specified by the "Feedback Correction Range" tables. In fact, this is necessary as the two other elements of knock control (changes to the IAM and changes to fine learning knock correction, described below) cannot be active unless FBKC is disabled. ALL of the following conditions must be met in order for FBKC to be disabled. If any of the following are not met, FBKC is enabled within its load/rpm ranges:
Coolant temp is greater than 140F
A/C was not just turned on (an extremely brief window of time after the A/C is switched on)
If in rough correction mode (described below), load and RPM are within the "Rough Correction Ranges".
If in fine correction mode (described below), load and RPM are within the "Fine Correction Ranges"
Immediate change in load is less than about +/- .05 g/rev.
ECU is not in test mode
ECU is not in limp-home mode due to the triggering of specific groups of CELs.
An unknown timing compensation based on throttle change is not active (i.e. no compensaton).

Rough Correction (IAM)

Rough correction involves manipulating the IAM (ignition advance multiplier) due to knock. This has the result of correcting timing advance across the board (timing advance maximum * IAM/16). The IAM can range between 0-16 for the 16-bit ECU.

The ECU has two modes of operation - rough correction or fine correction. That is, the ECU is either poised to possibly make corrections to the IAM (rough correction) or to possibly make changes to the fine learning knock correction table (described later), but not both at the same time. But, just because the ECU is in either of these modes, does not mean changes to the IAM or the fine learning knock correction (FLKC) table will be made. Therefore, there are two sets of thresholds for each mode. One set determines when to switch between modes (different depending on the current mode) and another set to determine whether changes to the IAM or FLKC table will be made in their respective modes. NOTE: After an ECU reset, the ECU defaults to the rough correction mode.

To exit from fine correction mode to rough correction mode, ALL of the following requirements must be met:
Engine speed and load must be within the ranges specified by the 'Rough Correction Range' tables.
Timing advance (maximum) map value is greater than 4.9 degrees.
Some FLKC value change (positive or negative) occured last execution.
The last FLKC applied value (|x|) is greater than 3.9 degrees (that is, the absolute correction -> ex. -4 = 4)
The last FLKC raw difference (|y| * 2.84) is greater than last timing advance (maximum) map value.
(IAM > 1) or (IAM <= 1 and last applied FLKC was positive).
Once in rough correction mode, the following requirements must be met each time in order to make any change to the IAM. That is, even though the ECU is in rough correction mode, it will not always be adjusting the IAM:
Current timing advance (maximum) map value > 3.9 degrees ("Rough Correction Minimum Timing Advance Map Value").
Limp-home mode not active (IAM would already be 0 in this case)
FBKC is disabled.
IAM step value > 1 (explained below)
If these are met, the following will occur, however, only after switching between the fine correction mode to the rough correction mode. That is, these will only be executed once each time the switch to the rough correction mode from fine correction mode occurs and right before a change to the IAM is going to occur:
IAM is set to the 'Advance Multiplier (Initial)' value
IAM step value is set to 4 ("Advance Multiplier Step Value", described below)
IAM learning delay counter set to 0 (explained below)
The entire FLKC table in ram is cleared.
The knock signal is checked. If clear (i.e. no knock):
The IAM learning delay counter is checked. If the current value is less than the delay target specified by the 'Rough Correction Learning Delay (Increasing)' table then the counter is incremented (similar to the delay for FBKC). When the current value is greater than the delay target, then the IAM is increased. On the first run through, IAM is always advanced by 4 ("Advance Multiplier Step Value"). It remains 4 as long as it is keeps increasing the IAM (up to 16). However, if during the last execution the IAM was decreased, the IAM step value is reduced by 1/2. This occurs each time the IAM flip-flops. When the IAM step value is less than or equal to 1, the rough correction mode ends (after applying one last change to the IAM) and the ECU switches to fine correction mode. Basically, this is the way the ECU determines that the IAM has settled.
If the knock signal is set (i.e. knock):
There is no delay for decreasing the IAM. However the counter value is cleared because knock was detected.
Other than no delay, the rest of the logic is basically the same as when the IAM is increasing except that the IAM is decreased.
In addition, when the IAM is 0 or 16, after a slight delay of remaining at these extremes, the ECU will switch to fine correction mode regardless of the current IAM step value. This would be necessary if there was not enough "settling" before reaching these extremes to exit the rough correction mode.

Note, that when the IAM has finally "settled", the ECU will switch from rough correction mode to fine correction mode. Fine correction mode will continue until the mode switch conditions listed at the beginning of this section are met again.

Fine Learning Knock Correction

Fine learning knock correction (FLKC) allows for positive or negative correction to KC based on knock. These values are stored in RAM and are stored and applied across specific load and RPM ranges. The ECU determines these ranges based on the 'Fine Correction Rows (RPM)' and 'Fine Correction Columns (Load)' tables. Although these tables consist of 7 values each, the ranges make up an 8x8 3d table. For example:

If your 'Fine Correction Rows (RPM)' table is: 1400,1800,2600,3400,4200,5000,6000 - the ranges would be as follows:
Range 1: less than 1400
Range 2: 1400 to less than 1800
Range 3: 1800 to less than 2600
Range 4: 2600 to less than 3400
Range 5: 3400 to less than 4200
Range 6: 4200 to less than 5000
Range 7: 5000 to less than 6000
Range 8: 6000 +
Fine correction is designed to make "finer" adjustments to timing after the IAM has roughly corrected timing advance where there is no knock. Fine
corrections are stored in RAM and are applied to KC all the time (except for certain conditions like idle). Although the FLKC table values in RAM are always being applied to KC, adjustments to the table itself can only occur when certain conditions are met:
Currently in fine correction mode. The switch from rough correction mode to fine correction mode occurs when the IAM step value <= 1 or IAM is 0 or 16 after a slight delay.
FBKC is disabled.
Engine speed and load are within the ranges specified by the 'Fine Correction Range' tables.
Limp-home mode is not active.
Then, if the knock signal is clear, other conditions must be met to add positive correction to the current fine correction cell in ram:
(FBKC and/or negative FLKC was NOT applied during the last execution)
If #1 is true, then the previous FLKC load/RPM range also has to be the same as the last range before this execution.
The current FLKC table load/rpm range is the same as the last range.
Like the other corrections, there is a delay before which an FLKC table value can be increased ('Fine Correction Advance Delay'). This is based on a counter (similar to the FBKC counter), which is incremented when there is no knock and is cleared when FLKC table adjustments are made or the knock signal is set.

If the above are met, then the FLKC value for the current load/RPM cell is increased. However, it cannot be increased if current timing advance + FLKC is greater than the current value in the "Timing Advance (Maximum)" table. This also means that if the IAM is 16, only negative FLKC is allowed. Each increment of FLKC is .35 degrees ('Fine Correction Advance Value'). Maximum allowable correction is 8 degrees("Fine Correction Advance Limit").

If the knock signal is set:
Fine correction in the current FLKC cell is decreased by about 1 degree ("Fine Correction Retard Value") with a limit of about 12 degrees("Fine Correction Retard Limit").
NOTE: After switching from fine correction mode to rough correction mode and right before the first change to the IAM after switching to that mode, the entire FLKC table is cleared and no corrections to the table are made until the ECU switches to the fine correction mode (although the current FLKC table is applied regardless except at idle and certain sensor failures).

Ivan Dimkovic: Evo jos malo oko adaptacije... sad bas gledam na mom autu oko toga (posto sam par nedelja koristio 95 oktanski, a onda sam presao na 98 oktana):



Interesantno je da su adaptacija knock senzora i adaptacija na oktanski broj dve posebne vrednosti - pretpostavljam da se "octane rating" parametar proracunava na osnovu knock senzora, ali je moguce da tu ima jos nekih ulaznih parametara pa sve to zavredjuje posebno mesto u memoriji.

Nisam mogao da pronadjem koliko treba vremena da se motor adaptira na drugacije gorivo - ali, kao sto se vidi, inzenjeri su ostavili "precicu" tj. mogucnost da se resetuje adaptacija i da motor odmah pocne da "uci" od nule. Ne znam da li se sa tim nesto dobija posto pretpostavljam da ako se resetuje motor pocinje sa parametrima za 95-oktanski benzin, a onda polako adaptira parametre za benzin sa vise oktana... Pretpostavljam da sigurno treba bar par stotina km da se "ucenje" zavrsi.